Waterloo Region Generations
A record of the people of Waterloo Region, Ontario.

William Richard Charles Weber

Male


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Generation: 1

  1. 1.  William Richard Charles Weber

Generation: 2

  1. 2.  Orval S. Weber was born 14 Sep 1901, , Ontario, Canada (son of Joseph S. Weber and Hannah Shantz); died 17 Mar 1978, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; was buried , First Mennonite Cemetery, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.

    Other Events:

    • Eby ID Number: Waterloo-157044P
    • Grave Photograph - Find A Grave: Gravestone of Orval S. Weber
    • Residence: 1911, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Mennonite

    Notes:

    Weber, Orval S., was born Sept. 14, 1901; died at St. Marys Hospital, Kitchener, Ont., Mar. 17, 1978; aged 76 y. He was married to Ella Fretz, who survives. Also surviving are 2 sons (James and William), one daughter (Mrs. Dorothy Sherk), 15 grandchildren, 3 stepgrandchildren, one great-granddaughter, 3 brothers (Joseph, Orphen, and Byron), and 2 sisters (Beulah Mrs. Delton Schmitt, Mrs. Hannah Snider). He was preceded in death by one daughter (Carol), 2 brothers and 4 sisters. He was a member of First Mennonite Church, where funeral services were held on Mar. 20, in charge of Glenn Brubacher; interment in First Mennonite Church Cemetery. Correction: In the obituary of Orval S. Weber (above), one surviving brother's name was omitted. Newton Weber is also a surviving brother. Two grandchildren preceded him in death.

    Gospel Herald - Volume 71, Number 15 - April 11, 1978 - page 306

    Orval — Ella Leona Fretz. Ella was born 31 Oct 1905, Markham, York Co., Ontario, Canada; died 13 Mar 1985, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; was buried , First Mennonite Cemetery, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada. [Group Sheet]


  2. 3.  Ella Leona Fretz was born 31 Oct 1905, Markham, York Co., Ontario, Canada; died 13 Mar 1985, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; was buried , First Mennonite Cemetery, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.

    Other Events:

    Notes:

    Weber, Ella L., was born at Markham, Ont., Oct. 31, 1905; died at St. Mary's Hospital, Kitchener, Ont., Mar. 13, 1985; aged 79 y. She was married to Orval Weber, who died in 1978. Surviving are 2 sons (James and William), one daughter (Mrs. Dorothy Sherk), 21 grandchildren, 6 great-grandchildren, and one sister (Mabel-Mrs. Vernice Hoover). She was preceded in death by 2 grandchildren, 7 brothers, and 2 sisters. She was a member of First Mennonite Church, where funeral services were held on Mar. 16, in charge of Glenn Brubacher; interment in First Mennonite Cemetery.

    Gospel Herald - Volume 78, Number 16 -April 16, 1985, page 276, 277, 278

    Children:
    1. James Samuel Weber
    2. 1. William Richard Charles Weber
    3. Carol Angeleen "Angeleen" Weber was born 16 Dec 1928, Markham, York Co., Ontario, Canada; died 7 Jul 1969, London, Middlesex, Ontario, Canada; was buried , Grace United (Zion Evangelical) Cemetery , Tavistock, East Zorra Township, Oxford Co., Ontario.
    4. Dorothy Eileen Isabel Weber was born 23 Feb 1936; died 15 Dec 1993, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; was buried , Wilmot Mennonite (formerly Geiger) Cemetery, Wilmot, Waterloo Region, Ontario.


Generation: 3

  1. 4.  Joseph S. WeberJoseph S. Weber was born 4 Mar 1861, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada (son of Joseph M. Weber and Veronica Shantz); died 6 Aug 1949, near, Didsbury, , Alberta, Canada; was buried , Erb Street Mennonite Cemetery, Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.

    Other Events:

    • Eby ID Number: 00127-7872
    • Residence: 1871, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Mennonite
    • Residence: 1881, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Mennonite
    • Occupation: 1891, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Farmer
    • Residence: 1891, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Mennonite
    • Occupation: 1901, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Farmer
    • Occupation: 1911, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Farmer
    • Residence: 1911, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Mennonite
    • Occupation: 1921, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Farmer
    • Residence: 1921, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Mennonite

    Notes:

    Joseph S. Weber," was born March 4th, 1861. On March 4th, 1884, he was married to Mary Ann, daughter of Henry B. and Lydia (Snyder) Shantz. She was born December 12, 1864. They reside on the old homestead taken up by his grandfather, Benjamin Weber, in 1817. Their family consists of seven children, namely: VII Allen, born March 12th, 1885, VII Veronica, born May 11th, 1886, VII Edwin, born July 16th, 1887, and died September 13th, 1888, VII Benjamin, born December 4th, 1888, and died December 7th, 1888, VII Joseph, born January 30th, 1890, Lydia Ann, born May 11th, 1891, and VII Hannah, born December 19th, 1892."

    Eby, Ezra E. (1895). A biographical history of Waterloo township and other townships of the county: being a history of the early settlers and their descendants, mostly all of Pennsylvania Dutch origin: as also much other unpublished historical information chiefly of a local character. Berlin [Kitchener, Ont.]: [s.n.].

    __________________________


    Weber. -- Joseph S., son of Joseph M. and Veronica (Shantz) Weber, was born in Waterloo Twp., Ont., March 4, 1861; died near Didsbury, Alta., Aug. 6, 1949; aged 88 y. 5 m. 2 d. Surviving are his widow (Elizabeth Schmidt Weber), 11 children (Allan S., Waterloo, Ont.; Fanny - Mrs. A. R. Burkholder, Markham, Ont.; Joseph H., Waterloo; Hannah - Mrs. Herbert Snider, Breslau, Ont.; Lewis S., on furlough from Argentina; Newton S., West Liberty, Ohio; Orphen, Kitchener, Ont.; Orval, Petersburg, Ont.; Violet - Mrs. Leonard Snider, Elmira, Ont.; Byron, Kitchener, Ont.; and Beulah - Mrs. Delton Schmitt, Mannheim, Ont.), 48 grandchildren, 35 great-grandchildren, one brother (Noah, Waterloo, Ont.), and one sister (Hannah - Mrs. Menno Reesor, Markham, Ont.). Two daughters (Lydia Ann - Mrs. Joseph Reesor, Markham, Ont.; and Naomi - Mrs. Nelson Martin, formerly of Toronto, Ont.) predeceased him. Funeral services were conducted by Oscar Burkholder and J. B. Martin at the Erb Street Mennonite Church in Waterloo

    Gospel Herald - Volume XLII, Number 41 - October 11, 1949 - pages 1013, 1014

    Joseph married Hannah Shantz 6 Nov 1900, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada. Hannah (daughter of Henry Bauman Shantz and Lydia Ann Snyder) was born 1 Sep 1866, Wilmot Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died 16 Aug 1925, Near Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; was buried 19 Aug 1925, Erb Street Mennonite Cemetery, Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada. [Group Sheet]


  2. 5.  Hannah Shantz was born 1 Sep 1866, Wilmot Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada (daughter of Henry Bauman Shantz and Lydia Ann Snyder); died 16 Aug 1925, Near Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; was buried 19 Aug 1925, Erb Street Mennonite Cemetery, Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.

    Other Events:

    • Name: Hannah Weber
    • Eby ID Number: 00110-6677.3
    • Grave Photograph - Find A Grave: Gravestone of Hannah Shantz
    • Occupation: 1891, Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Servant
    • Residence: 1891, Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Mennonite
    • Residence: 1911, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Mennoite
    • Residence: 1921, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Mennonite

    Notes:

    WEBER. Hannah Weber, (nee Shantz) wife of Joseph S. Weber, died at her home near Waterloo, Ont., Aug. 16, 1925, at the age of 58 y. 11 m. 16 d. Death was due to Bulbar Paralysis with which she was afflicted for a year or more. It affected her neck and throat to the extent that she could not speak, eat nor drink the last while. She made her wants known by writing. She accepted Christ as her Savior and united with the Mennonite Church in her youth, living a devoted, consistent life, and bore her suffering very patiently, looking forward to the time when she would be relieved from all distress, where sorrow and pain will not be known. She often expressed a desire to depart and be with Christ which was for her far better. Funeral services were held on Aug. 19, at the Waterloo Mennonite Church by the brethren, Oscar Burkholder, Jonas Snider, and Noah Hunsberger. She leaves to mourn her departure, a beloved husband, twelve children, two sisters, five brothers, and twenty-three grandchildren. May God bless and sustain them in their bereavement.

    Gospel Herald , Sept. 3, 1925

    Children:
    1. Newton Weber was born 1897, , Ontario, Canada; died Yes, date unknown.
    2. Orphan Weber was born 1899, , Ontario, Canada; died Yes, date unknown.
    3. Orvall Weber was born 1901, , Ontario, Canada; died Yes, date unknown.
    4. 2. Orval S. Weber was born 14 Sep 1901, , Ontario, Canada; died 17 Mar 1978, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; was buried , First Mennonite Cemetery, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.
    5. Violet Weber was born 1904, , Ontario, Canada; died Yes, date unknown.
    6. Violet Almeda Weber was born 6 Oct 1904, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died 22 Mar 1970, Woolwich Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; was buried , Hagey Cemetery, Cambridge, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.
    7. Byron S. Weber was born 6 Nov 1906, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died 17 Jul 1989, Cambridge, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; was buried , Woodland Cem., Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.
    8. Buelah Weber was born 1908, , Ontario, Canada; died Yes, date unknown.
    9. Beulah Weber was born 4 Jun 1909, , Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died 12 Sep 1991, Cambridge, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; was buried , Mannheim Mennonite Cemetery, Wilmot Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.


Generation: 4

  1. 8.  Joseph M. Weber was born 11 Jun 1820, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada (son of Benjamin Weber and Veronica Martin); died 1 Sep 1901; was buried , Martin Meeting House Cemetery, Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.

    Other Events:

    • Eby ID Number: 00127-7862
    • Grave Photograph - Find A Grave: Gravestone of Joseph M. Weber
    • Residence: 1843, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada
    • Occupation: 1852, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; farmer
    • Occupation: 1861, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Farmer
    • Residence: 1861, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Mennonite
    • Occupation: 1871, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Farmer
    • Residence: 1871, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Mennonite
    • Occupation: 1881, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Farmer
    • Residence: 1881, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Mennonite
    • Retired: 1901, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada

    Notes:

    Joseph Weber," the youngest child of Benjamin and Veronica (Martin) Weber, was born in Waterloo County, Ontario, on the farm now possessed by his son, Joseph S., June 11 1820. On November 14th, 1843, he was married to Veronica, daughter of Joseph and Catherine (Schneider) Shantz. She was born March 15th, 1822. Of late years they have given up farming and live in the house erected by his father, old Benjamin Weber. Their family consisted of thirteen children, of whom five died young."


    Eby, Ezra E. (1895). A biographical history of Waterloo township and other townships of the county: being a history of the early settlers and their descendants, mostly all of Pennsylvania Dutch origin: as also much other unpublished historical information chiefly of a local character. Berlin [Kitchener, Ont.]: [s.n.].

    Joseph married Veronica Shantz 14 Nov 1843, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada. Veronica (daughter of Joseph R. Shantz and Catharine Schneider) was born 15 Mar 1822, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died 23 Sep 1894; was buried , Martin Meeting House Cemetery, Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada. [Group Sheet]


  2. 9.  Veronica Shantz was born 15 Mar 1822, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada (daughter of Joseph R. Shantz and Catharine Schneider); died 23 Sep 1894; was buried , Martin Meeting House Cemetery, Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.

    Other Events:

    • Name: Fronica Shantz
    • Name: Veronica Weber
    • Eby ID Number: 00110-6886
    • Grave Photograph - Find A Grave: Gravestone of Veronica Shantz
    • Residence: 1843, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada
    • Residence: 1861, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Mennonite
    • Residence: 1871, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Mennonite
    • Residence: 1881, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Mennonite

    Notes:

    Veronica Shantz, "the eldest daughter of Joseph and Catharine (Schneider) Shantz, was born in Waterloo County, March 15th, 1822. On November 14th, 1843, she was married to Joseph Weber. She died September 23rd, 1894."


    Eby, Ezra E. (1895). A biographical history of Waterloo township and other townships of the county: being a history of the early settlers and their descendants, mostly all of Pennsylvania Dutch origin: as also much other unpublished historical information chiefly of a local character. Berlin [Kitchener, Ont.]: [s.n.].

    Children:
    1. Barbara Weber was born 20 Jul 1844, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died 10 Nov 1911; was buried , Elmira Mennonite Cemetery, Elmira, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.
    2. Enoch Weber was born 2 Oct 1845, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died 11 Sep 1847; was buried , Martin Meeting House Cemetery, Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.
    3. Catherine Weber was born 11 Sep 1847, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died 23 Mar 1863; was buried , Martin Meeting House Cemetery, Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.
    4. Mary Ann Weber was born 18 Apr 1849, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died 15 Jul 1850; was buried , Martin Meeting House Cemetery, Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.
    5. Menno S. Weber was born 20 Mar 1851, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died 10 Oct 1933, , Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; was buried , Erb Street Mennonite Cemetery, Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.
    6. Ezra Weber was born 4 Feb 1853, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died 17 Aug 1855; was buried , Martin Meeting House Cemetery, Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.
    7. Veronica Weber was born 25 Jan 1855, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died 11 Mar 1914, Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; was buried , Martin Meeting House Cemetery, Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.
    8. Amos S. Weber was born 10 Apr 1857, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died 1930; was buried , First Mennonite Cemetery, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.
    9. Susannah Weber was born 10 Mar 1859, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died Yes, date unknown.
    10. 4. Joseph S. Weber was born 4 Mar 1861, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died 6 Aug 1949, near, Didsbury, , Alberta, Canada; was buried , Erb Street Mennonite Cemetery, Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.
    11. Hannah Weber was born 27 May 1863, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died 28 Jun 1954; was buried , Reesor Mennonite Cemetery, Markham Township, York Co., Ontario.
    12. Lucinda Weber was born 19 May 1865, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died 25 Aug 1881, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; was buried , Martin Meeting House Cemetery, Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.
    13. Noah S. Weber was born 11 Jan 1868, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died 16 Apr 1963, Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; was buried , Erb Street Mennonite Cemetery, Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.

  3. 10.  Henry Bauman Shantz was born 17 Dec 1841, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada (son of Noah C. Shantz and Hannah Bauman); died 19 Dec 1922, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; was buried , First Mennonite Cemetery, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.

    Other Events:

    • Eby ID Number: 00110-6677
    • Occupation: 1861, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Laborer
    • Residence: 1861, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Mennonite
    • Residence: 1863, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada
    • Occupation: 1869, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; laborer
    • Occupation: 1871, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; farmer
    • Occupation: 1881, , Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; farmer
    • Occupation: 1891, Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Farmer
    • Residence: 1891, Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Mennonite
    • Occupation: 1901, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; day labourer
    • Occupation: 1911, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Income
    • Residence: 1911, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Mennonite
    • Retired: 1911, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada
    • Residence: 1922, 155 Albert St. S., Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada

    Notes:

    Henry B. Shantz, "was born December 16th, 1841. On October 20th, 1863, he was married to Lydia Snyder. They reside near Berlin where he is engaged in raising vegetables for the market. To them were born the following children".


    Eby, Ezra E. (1895). A biographical history of Waterloo township and other townships of the county: being a history of the early settlers and their descendants, mostly all of Pennsylvania Dutch origin: as also much other unpublished historical information chiefly of a local character. Berlin [Kitchener, Ont.]: [s.n.].

    Henry married Lydia Ann Snyder 20 Oct 1863, , Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada. Lydia (daughter of Samuel Snyder and Mary Detweiler) was born 20 Jan 1839, North Dumfries Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died 10 Sep 1909, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; was buried , First Mennonite Cemetery, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada. [Group Sheet]


  4. 11.  Lydia Ann Snyder was born 20 Jan 1839, North Dumfries Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada (daughter of Samuel Snyder and Mary Detweiler); died 10 Sep 1909, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; was buried , First Mennonite Cemetery, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.

    Other Events:

    • Name: Lydia Ann Shantz
    • Eby ID Number: 00106-6038
    • Residence: 1861, North Dumfries Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Mennonite
    • Residence: 1863, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada
    • Residence: 1891, Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; Mennonite

    Children:
    1. Mary Ann Shantz was born 12 Dec 1864, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died 17 Aug 1899, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; was buried , Martin Meeting House Cemetery, Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.
    2. 5. Hannah Shantz was born 1 Sep 1866, Wilmot Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died 16 Aug 1925, Near Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; was buried 19 Aug 1925, Erb Street Mennonite Cemetery, Waterloo City, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.
    3. Daniel S. Shantz was born 13 Apr 1868, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died 11 Jan 1944, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; was buried , Hagey Cemetery, Cambridge, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.
    4. Ananias S. Shantz was born 16 Dec 1869, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died Yes, date unknown; was buried , First Mennonite Cemetery, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.
    5. Louisa Shantz was born Mar 1871, , Ontario, Canada; died Yes, date unknown.
    6. Lydian Shantz was born 19 Mar 1871, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died 3 Dec 1952; was buried , First Mennonite Cemetery, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.
    7. Alvina Matilda Shantz was born 25 Nov 1872, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died 4 May 1961; was buried , First Mennonite Cemetery, Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.
    8. William Henry Shantz was born Dec 1874, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died Yes, date unknown; was buried , Memory Gardens Cemetery, Breslau, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.
    9. Edwin Alvin Shantz was born 12 Nov 1877, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died Yes, date unknown.
    10. Samuel S. Shantz was born 12 Nov 1879, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died 1960; was buried , Woodland Cem., Kitchener, Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada.
    11. Minerva Shantz was born 25 Jul 1883, Waterloo Twp., Waterloo Region, Ontario, Canada; died Yes, date unknown.